Monday, January 14, 2013

Spanking children...

I am aware that there are many people, conservatives and liberals alike that oppose the spanking of children and than there are those that fully support it.

I believe that children do require discipline and no I am not talking abuse where a child is bruised or punished so severely that they are truly traumatized and become fearful of their parent. 

I believe a spanking on the bottom is sufficient. The spanking must fit the crime. 

From pure observation with kids in my own church, on the streets, mall, theaters and even just grocery stores I see spoiled children getting away with wretched behavior that would have NEVER been tolerated when I was growing up.

For example: 1. One scene in a house I was visiting, the 3-year-old boy threw the biggest fit, yelling, and screaming and on the floor because his sister had a blue plate and he wanted it and wouldn't stop until he got his way. And the parents finally got tired of his tantrum and instead of disciplining their son they took his sister's plate away from her and forced her to get another plate, even though she had already begun eating off the plate.

I would have spanked him and made him sit down and eat his food or punish him without dinner and put him to bed.  They punished their daughter, by taking away her food and plate.

What would you have done in this scenario?

Example 2: At Wal-Mart, many shoppers could here a kid screaming at the top of his lungs that he wanted something out of the shopping cart,  I guess it was donuts?  I just happen to run into them in an isle. He kept on and on and on and so what did the mother do?  She said, 'FINE!" and proceeded to open up the package and gave the kid what he wanted.  He got his way, by exhausting his mother with his fit.  

I would have taken my kid out of the cart and gave him firm spanking in the bathroom. And then put the item back on the shelf.

What would you have done?

Example 3:  Kids disrespecting teachers, their parents, grandparents etc. I have seen it, so much that I am shocked that they actually cuss at their parents in stores, etc.  My mother probably would have popped me in the mouth. I know because one time, I called her a "bitch."  Let's just say I never did that again. And I have NEVER spoken to any adult like that. I learned to honor all of my elders and to give them the respect they deserve.  Yay! To my mom!! For standing her ground and teaching her rebellious daughter she was NOT about to put up with my bad attitude or manners.

What would you have done? If some kid cussed you out? Your kid or someone else's kid?

I have a lot of scenarios I could come up with, but I believe I would take up a lot of time.

My opinion:  Children need direction and good parenting. They do not need their parents to be their "friends" or their "pals."  Parents should NEVER give into a tantrum or bribe them to behave. I won't put up with that. And not to brag, but every single person that has ever met my two boys or had them spend the night at their house have told me that they are very well-behaved and VERY respectful and are a joy to have over. They even help out with chores.

My boss thought it was wonderful that my youngest son (10) "Wolfie"  said, "yes, ma'am" to her when he spoke to her on the phone when she asked him a question. It actually surprised her. 

My boys have been taught the bible, the Ten Commandments and know that they will be punished for bad behavior, talking back, etc. I have never put up with temper tantrums. 

Now there is one very important aspect to spanking and/or disciplining.  I am constantly telling my boys that I love them, and hug and kiss them a lot and the reason they get punished is because of their actions. If they choose to misbehave, talk back, etc. They made the choice to do so and they will suffer the consequences, one thing I have learned, take away their electronic devices. I can compromise on the spanking.  It just depends on what they did.



Liberalmann said...

Leave it to a 'Christian' wingnut to endorse corporal punishment.

William Stout said...

Leave it to a leftist to ruin society, dissolve national culture, degrade societal ethics, and corrupt politics while championing the very people he victimizes. Good job with those societal acids you call policies Liberalmann! The destruction of America is coming along nicely and we are broke due to your newly minted welfare state. Now excuse me while I speak to the adults.

Sounds to me like you are a good mother. My brothers and I were raised in the 1960's, but we were raised by my grandparents and so were treated like children were treated in the 1940's. We got the strap when we deserved it and an occasional slap for a smart mouth, but we never felt as if we were not loved. In fact, it was the love of my grandparents and how I was raised that saved my brothers and I, but that is too long a story to relate here. Parents today have no idea how to raise children.

After Doctor Spock ruined an entire generation (his own words after he had seen the results of his suggestions on parenting) who was going to raise their kids? They were and they raised them exactly like they were raised by the idiots who listened to Spock. Generation two was now trashed and it is a perpetuating cycle because there are not any grand parents who are not contaminated and we get the kids that we are all familiar with today.

Children run around like wild Indians in department stores, they holler and scream to get their way, the schools tell them how special they are and that everybody is a winner. I saw a study that said that the current crop of college freshmen believe themselves to be the most gifted class of college students in the history of the United States. Unfortunately, they are wrong about that. But narcissism is one of the many "gifts" of modern parenting.

I have seen kids stand in front of their parents with their friends at their back and enter into a drunken rage because they can't get their way. If I had done that I am pretty sure that I would have wound up in the hospital. Don't pay any mind to people who tell you how to raise your own children. They have fouled it up with their slick ass, fast food, I want to be your buddy style of parenting and have no clue as to what real parenting is all about.

A real parent in today's world is a rarity. Your boys will realize just how good a mother you were to them when they have children of their own and they will realize the true value of how you raised them.

Ducky's here said...

@Stout --- A real parent in today's world is a rarity.

You're full of crap.

One thing that may interest Leticia.
One of my neighbors is Muslim and their children are exceptionally well behaved. They have been raised well.

But the kids in the neighborhood are being raised by a variety of families and seem to be doing well. Of course, this is an enlightened Northeast environment. Right, Mr. Stout?

Leticia said...

Lib, apparently you weren't disciplined. And there is a VAST difference between corporal punishment and a spanking. Learn the difference before you begin spouting your nonsense.

William, thank you so much. It's people like Liberal and Ducky who lack common sense when it comes to disciplining children. I am grateful my mother never put up with my smart mouth and being rebellious and because of her, I am raising wonderful and respectful boys, that know how to behave.

To Lib and Ducky, my boys are beautiful loving compassionate boys. Yes, they have their days like anyone else but they know when they are misbehaving and even after punishment they will come and hug me and apologize and what do I do? I hug them tight and tell them how much I love them. Yeah, I am such "wingnut" because I love my boys and want them to be productive citizens and not dead-beats living off the government. I want them to be self-sufficient and independent. They have to learn that nothing is given to them, they have to earn it. That's being a parent. Enabling a child is ridiculous and stupid. Kids need guidance.

If that's bad parenting, than I truly feel sorry for your children if you have any. You will reap what you sow.

Ducky's here said...

That's not the issue, Leticia.

It's fools like Bill Stout who make wild statements like, "A real parent in today's world is a rarity." who make conservatives sound like such fools these days.

Your boys are probably doing fine and if you give them a paddle now and again it doesn't mean much one way or the other except when you make the ridiculous assumption that other parents can't do just as well or better by other means.

jez said...

I'm not going to say I wouldn't ever hit my children, but if I do I'm certain that I'd be making them fearful of me and/or capitalising on that fear. How do you do it usefully without it being scary?

Curt Fouts said...

Corporal punishment has its place, but values can be taught by other methods as well.

My wife and I both read Dr Dobson's Dare to Discipline, and he advocates making children face the consequences of their actions at every turn.

Don't want to eat? Then no snack later and you go to bed hungry.

Mess something up? Clean it up (This is especially rewarding if a child has caused a big mess during a tantrum).

We also used time out extensively, with no talking or other stimulus. And to get out, the child had to tell us what she did wrong, why it was wrong, and apologize. That makes kids think about their actions.

We have also spanked, but more as an attention getter.

christian soldier said...

my off spring stated that they would rather get one hand swat on the butt than sit in a corner for "time out" like their friends get...


Liberalmann said...

Leticia said...

Lib, apparently you weren't disciplined. And there is a VAST difference between corporal punishment and a spanking. Learn the difference before you begin spouting your nonsense.


Lol, really? Do tell!

Leticia said...

Ducky, I have seen too many parents being their kids friends than actually being parents. We cannot be parents and their friends. Because you cannot discipline a friend.

One more thing, I want to thank you for your kind words regarding my boys. I spank on very rare occasions, usually taking away their beloved playstation, computers etc, does the trick. We have strict rule at our house, they are only allowed to use those items on the Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, so it is a HUGE deal if they lose that privilege.

Jez, first and most important thing you CANNOT be angry when you spank your children, because you might hit them harder than you meant to. One time a friend was so angry with one of her kids she used the "spoon" and left a small bruise it broke her heart and she cried for days. The kid got over it almost immediately, but it took time for her to forgive herself.

My boys get 3 verbal warnings before they are spanked or receive a punishment. Yep, I count them out, too. They know mommy is serious when the countdown begins. It gives me time to cool off and them to stop.

Curt, I have that book too! I believe every parent needs to buy it. I also have the one just for boys. God bless Dr. Dobson.

A child should NEVER fear their parents. They must always know that we are the "safe zone."

Carol, yes! My boys HATE the corner! LOL! One time one of them asked for a spanking and nope they got the corner.

Lib, read above, and figure it out yourself, you're old enough to research the difference. No hand holding here.

Malcolm Bondon said...

Example 1: I would have spanked or popped that crying kid on his hand. There's no way I would have given his sister's plate to him!

Example 2: Same thing as in example 1. Although I probably wouldn't have taken him to the bathroom. I'd have disciplined him right on the sales floor.

Example 3:If it's someone else's kid, it depends on the situation as to how far I'd take it. If it were my kid, I'd make sure they knew that if they dreamed of doing it again, they better wake up and apologize!

Although I didn't grow up in a religious household, I was taught the difference between right/wrong and was disciplined when needed. I think we need more of it today because too many kids are spoiled and coddled. Unless someone puts a stop to their antics, can you imagine what type of people the 3 yr old (example 1) and the Wal-Mart kid (example 2) will grow up to be?!

Right Truth said...

We saw some really unruly kids yesterday, my hubby said they needed their little butts spanked. I agreed, but reminded him that these days you really can't do that. Someone will find out, turn you in to Children's services for abuse, or the child will sue you. It truly is a shame parents cannot discipline children any longer, other than saying "Now Johnny, you're so cute and sweet, you just do anything you want because you know mommy and daddy won't do anything, won't follow through on any threats.

Right Truth

Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Children know they cannot be touched. They are inviolate. This has been driven into them by their teachers and by various social service drones they have encountered in childhood.

Not nearly enough children are ignored when they cry or publicly slapped in polite society. At a VERY young age.

Too many children think themselves superior to adults. That's where the very distinct words JUVENILE and ADULT come from.

"A real parent in today's world is a rarity."


A real parent isn't concerned with a child's esteem or ego at the sacrifice of everything else; a real parent is concerned with educating their children to the realities of the world; a real parent isn't concerned with making their child the center of the universe; a real parent realizes that their child CAN do harm and CAN do wrong and doesn't automatically side with their child when confronted with behavior issues.

You're not there to be your kid's friend. You're not there to be their pal or their confidant. You're not there to enable their drinking or their doping.

Kids are like dogs. You must be firm, fair, and consistent. ALWAYS. ANY deviation and the child will move from your ruling them to them ruling you.

And it starts at INFANCY.


Always On Watch said...

What prevents most automobile drivers from speeding or breaking other rules of the road?

Some of these drivers reined themselves in because of their concerns for safety -- typically, their own safety.

But most drivers, IMO, rein themselves in out of concern for what the punishments will be -- typically, concern for having their car insurance rates go through the roof. Some of these drivers, however, have to learn the hard way: suspension of their licenses to drive and, in a few extreme cases, jail terms.

One size doesn't fit all.

The same applies to children, I think.

Some children can be reasoned with or have their privileges restricted as effective disciplinary measures.

I wasn't one of the those children.

I was bull headed (as my mother used to say).

I loved being sent to my room because, as a loner, I had plenty of books to read as well as other amusements that I could enjoy by myself.

I needed the switchings that I got. In fact, I pushed the envelope until, finally, my mother, a very patient person, grabbed a forsythia switch. My mother didn't use her hand, a hairbrush, or a belt because she believed that it was too easy for a strong adult to inflict permanent injury by using those methods.

BTW, I never acted out in public. I didn't want to embarrass my parents by exhibiting bad behavior. As a result, nobody cringed when my parents and I went shopping or paid others a visit. I learned quickly to keep my hands to myself and would not so much as touch anyone else's belongings without permission.

Always On Watch said...

Oops! Forgot to check comments notification.

Most Rev. Gregori said...

Leticia, I couldn't help but noticing that in all of your examples, one can see future liberals. Yes, a firm hand applied to the sit downers of unruly kids, by the majority of parents, would most likely cut down on the liberal population in America today. And as the Bible states, "Spar the rod and spoil the child."

Liberalmann said...

Leticia said: 'Lib, read above, and figure it out yourself, you're old enough to research the difference. No hand holding here.'


Riight. I didn't think so.

Leticia said...

Malcolm, I couldn't agree more with you on all of your answers, because kids need to realize they have limits and bad behavior should never be rewarded. I sometimes have to bite my tongue when I see parents giving into their children's tantrums. No way!

Debbie, it's horrible how the government has taken power away from kids, and look at what a lot of have become, thugs, bullies and demanding things they don't deserve. I have spanked my boys in public and so far in the south, most parents agree with it.

BZ, EXACTLY! My boys learned the word, "NO!" almost immediately. The three warnings came in at that time. And then a smack on the hand.
Kids don't need their parents to be their pals, that comes later when they are adults. I am glad my mom was my parent and not my buddy. Now she is my best-friend.

AOW, that's good parenting. God bless our parents. My mom didn't put up with my rebellion. I thought I would die when I was restricted from using the phone for a month!! And also my tv privileges.

Abouna, Amen to that!!

Lib, if you aren't capable of defining corporal punishment and a simple spanking, and need my help to do it, good grief! Google it.

Malcolm Bondon said...

In regards to what Most Rev. Gregori said, it's sad that someone had to turn this into a liberal/conservative issue. The bottom line is that bad behavior doesn't have any bearing on one's political viewpoint. The kids highlighted by Leticia in this post could easily grow up to be conservatives.

By the way, props to you Leticia for not making this post political.

Liberalmann said...

Earth to Letica: Spanking IS Corporal punishment.

Corporal punishment is a form of physical punishment that involves the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence, or for the purpose of disciplining or reforming a wrongdoer, or to deter attitudes or behaviour deemed unacceptable. The term usually refers to methodically striking the offender with the open hand or with an implement, whether in judicial, domestic, or educational settings.

dmarks said...

Leticia: It seems that some here want us to be bad parents, and raise wastes of skin like Trayvon Martin, who ended up as an enraged dope fiend wandering around looking for people to beat up.

(No, Zimmerman should not have shot him. Tazing the hell out of Martin would have solved the problem)

Liberalmann said...

Your brain is tazer-addled.

Malcolm Bondon said...

dmarks: Leave it you to find a way to go off on one of your anti-Trayvon Martin rants. You have no concrete evidence that he was an enraged dope fiend who was wandering around looking for people to beat up. Sure, he had traces of THC in his system. However, that does not mean he used marijuana the night he was killed. Even if he did, that doesn't make him a dope fiend. Furthermore, you have no proof he was out looking for a fight because police have no witnesses who actually say how the fight started. Isn't it possible that Zimmerman started the confrontation?

There are only two people who know for sure what happened on that night and one of them isn't in a position to give his side of the story.

By the way, you never responded to a comment I made on a previous post here. Because of the holidays, that's understandable. In case you missed it, here is the link:

The comment in question is the next to last one in the thread. In addition to my direct reply to you, the last sentence in that comment post pertains to you. I look forward to your response.

Leticia said...

Thanks Malcolm. It wasn't meant to be political. :)

Lib, another definition was people being punished with whips, switches, etc. And parents don't leave marks on their precious babies bodies. That is NOT the intention of good parenting.

dmarks said...

Malcolm: It was in your writing about him that I found out that Martin (relevant as an example of a poorly raised child with bad parents) was a drug-abusing felon under the influence of dangerous illegal drugs. What lousy parents to let Martin commit crimes like this.

"Sure, he had traces of THC in his system."

Drug abuse is a crime, and likely he abused enough to be a felon. Yes, it made him a dope fiend.

"Isn't it possible that Zimmerman started the confrontation?"

It's possible, but the evidence points to the roving criminal.

As for the Fox News stuff, which comment are you referring to? You are indeed very one-sided. Your blog has posts and banners supporting the movement to censor Fox, but none about MSNBC. I will always defend Fox and ANY news outlet from people's ignorance and contempt of the First Amendment. I'd be saying the same thing to those hellbent to wipe out, say "Democracy Now!". But it just doesn't happen. The contempt for the diversity of views and freedom of the press comes much more strongly from the Left.

dmarks said...

By the way, Malcolm.... more news this week about Jeep moving production to China. Romney was correct.

Malcolm Bondon said...

dmarks: I think you've been watching too many of those propaganda films they used to show in health class. If you want call Trayvon Martin a dope fiend who was the product of bad parenting, have at it. By the way, what do you have to say about the substance abuse problems of George W. Bush? He was arrested twice (once for disorderly conduct and the 2nd time for DUI). Sure, alcohol is legal, but if you're going to trash Trayvon, I don't see how you can defend the actions of Bush. Especially since he got behind the wheel of a car while impaired... endangering the life of others. Would you also say he was the product of lousy parenting? I won't even go into the allegations of him using marijuana and cocaine.

As for your question about the Fox News stuff, I'm not sure what you mean. I gave you the link to the post and the location of the comment in the thread. I await your response. In particular, I pointed out instances where I've criticized pundits outside the Fox universe. Also, I'd like to hear what you have to say regarding Fabian the Rocket Scientist referring to both me and President Obama as "BOY".

Here is the link again:

My comment which I'm referring to is actually in their twice. I posted it a second time because the first one (dated 12/12/12 at 9:57 AM) had disappeared, but now it's back. The second one (dated 12/20/12 at 7:26 PM) is the next to last one in the thread.

By the way, your accusation that I'm one-sided makes me wonder if you have an irony gene.

dmarks said...

Malcolm asked: "what do you have to say about the substance abuse problems of George W. Bush?"

All evidence shows that Bush had put those problems behind him many years prior to his Presidency, which makes it entirely irrelevant. The same, I will add, for Clinton having admitted abusing drugs back in college.

"Would you also say he was the product of lousy parenting?

George W. Bush had long since been an adult when he made this bad decision. Trayvon, in contrast, was a minor child. His parents bear a great responsibility.

This has nothing to do with "propaganda films" and everything to do with an individual who committed drug crimes.

Re Fox News:

" In particular, I pointed out instances where I've criticized pundits outside the Fox universe"

Yet that is rather rare, compared to your one-sided and hypocritical vendetta against Fox News, which shows a contempt for freedom of the press.

"Also, I'd like to hear what you have to say regarding Fabian the Rocket Scientist referring to both me and President Obama as "BOY"."

Come on now. do you have any doubt what I would say? Do you have to ask?

I do know that he changed the score: the racist hate speech so far on that post had come entirely from the Left. With Fabian, the racist terms started to come from the Right also.

"By the way, your accusation that I'm one-sided makes me wonder if you have an irony gene."

I'm not one-sided, of course. I am capable of stepping back and looking at things from the center, and can see that though Hannity/etc on Fox agree with my views a lot more than Maddow/etc on MSNBC, they are really pretty much doing the same thing.

Malcolm Bondon said...

dmarks: Just as I expected, you found a way to avoid trashing Bush for his substance abuse problems. Just so we're clear, I couldn't care less about what he did in the past. By all accounts, he eventually put his substance use behind him. Trayvon wasn't given that chance. Since he was killed at such a young age, we'll never know what type of an adult he would have turned out to be.

I just find it curious how you continue to trash Trayvon Martin. All we know is that he smoked weed. However, you have managed to turn him into drug crazed kid roaming around looking for people to assault. You seem to have a personal grudge against Trayvon. Case in point, going out of your way to attack him in this thread.

"Come on now. do you have any doubt what I would say? Do you have to ask?"

I have a pretty good idea what you would say. The problem is that you didn't say it. You love to police people on the left when you feel they have made racist statements. However, you're reluctant to do it when it's someone on your side of the political fence. By the way, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim about Shaw making a racist statement toward Herman Cain.

As for your feeling that I rarely criticize people on the left, I could say the same about you. More often than not, you spin, change the subject, etc.

dmarks said...

Malc: I didn't "avoid trashing" him. I just pointed out the fact that his parents had little to do with it, because he was not a minor in their custody at the time.

Yes, we do know that Martin was a drug abuser. Who turned him into a drug crazed kid roaming around looking for trouble? Not me, certainly. It was Martin's decision, but certainly his parents, his guardians had some of the blame.

"I have a pretty good idea what you would say. The problem is that you didn't say it."

There were many many comments on that thread. No, I didn't comment on each and every one. And no, I will not bash you for not criticizing the racial slurs used by Ezz and "?".

"You love to police people..."

I never police anyone. But I do express my opinion, and criticize racism.

...on the left when you feel they have made racist statements."

It has nothing to do with how I "feel", and everything to do with whether or not in fact they have made racist statements.

"However, you're reluctant to do it when it's someone on your side of the political fence."

Entirely untrue. You are just making an unfounded assumption. No, you haven't been on the conservative blogs when I criticized conservatives for saying Michelle Obama looked like an ape. So you speak on matters you don't know about.

"By the way, I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim about Shaw making a racist statement toward Herman Cain."

I looked thoroughly for the item in which a leftist "comedian" bashed Cain for being black, and Shaw agreed. I did not find it. I asked Shaw if she deleted the whole post, and the way she answered strongly implies she did.

Shaw usually isn't "Shaw KKKenawe", but she sometimes is. In this instance, and earlier when she was bashing Bobby Jindal for being "colored".

"More often than not, you spin, change the subject, etc."

That happens rarely, if at all.

Malcolm Bondon said...

dmarks: More than once I've asked you not to call me "Malc". Only a
select few can call me that and you are not among them.

On the two occasions that I've seen when you could have called out a
conservative for making racist remarks, you failed. One was the
"watermelon patch" comment by Free George Zimmerman. The other was the
aforementioned "BOY" remark by Fabian. As for my so-called failure to call out racist remarks by commenters on the left, I don't make it a habit of policing either side. I'll leave that to you. For the record, which racist slurs by Ezz and "?" did I fail to call out?

As for Shaw, you seem to have some personal grudge against her. Just
like with Trayvon, you'll manage to work in an attack against her. I
do find it funny how you're implying she deleted a comment you can't find. If you resent that last sentence, there are two ways to fix
that. Either provide the links upfront or stop worrying about what
other commenters say and take care of yourself.

dmarks said...

M: I'm sorry, I had forgotten the Malc thing or overlooked it. Nothing was intended. I don't think it will happen again: I see what you are saying and acknowledge it. I do recall though once calling you an entirely wrong name. Forget what it is now!

I don't remember the watermelon patch one. As I said, I don't read every single comment. I did see the BOY one when you pointed it out, and I think you took him to the woodshed for it quite handily.

" For the record, which racist slurs by Ezz and "?" did I fail to call out?"

Cracker was one of them. They used others too. But so what? I don't expect you to read and comment on every comment too. Just pointing out that if you are going to nail me for missing the racist "watermelon patch", I can do the same for you.

Shaw didn't appear to delete a comment. The whole thread (including parent post) appears to be gone, and I asked Shaw about it.

But I see your point. I won't beat the dead racist horse anymore.

Yeah, I lost respect for Shaw when she went racist, and also when she defended Rahm Emanual's "Retards" gaffe by telling me that her friends who are parents of kids with Down syndrome call their kids "fu**ing retards" all the time. At this point, I knew was a liar.

There were other racist bloggers on the Left who bashed Cain for being black, anyway, not just her. Just as there were, and are right-wing bloggers of the same mindset who bash Obama for race.

Malcolm Bondon said...

dmarks: I didn't think the "Malc" reference was intended. Just to be clear, the only reason I highlighted you not calling out the "watermelon patch" and "BOY" remarks is because I've seen you call out liberals for their remarks on this blog. I just wanted to see some balance. :-)

jordan said...

I am a million percent against spanking. And when it comes to my child. There is nothing you can do to force me to follow your lead. I am not a liberal by the way as some idiots like to think. I am totally ignorant when it comes to politics. I am not against it because of laws or studies. I do not need these things to know that hitting is wrong. I have been suffering the consequences of spanking for most of my life. I am against it because of that.