Friday, December 14, 2012

At least 26 dead in shooting at Connecticut elementary school



























As a mother, I cannot even begin to imagine the pain, agony and suffering of the parents of these precious little babies.  I couldn't stop crying.  And the those 8 adults, including the shooter's family. My heart reaches out to them and to God for comfort and peace. He is the only ONE that can bring that kind of peace.

Click here for the whole tragic massacre

This is not the time, but I feel I should mention it, but if the principal or any of those teachers or staff had concealed weapons, they may have stopped that monster from doing any harm to all those innocent children and adults.

I support the 1st Amendment now more than ever. And to those that disagree with me, fine.  

Let me just say this, if a person is intent on killing another person, there are no laws, bans or anything that would prevent them from attaining a weapon or weapons. This vile person pre-meditated an planned this very carefully.  And I am only stating an opinion here, he wanted notoriety.

MOVING ON.....

I ask all Intercessors and prayer Warriors to continue to pray for the families of the victims of this tragedy.

May God be wrapping His arms around each and every one of them. And my God have mercy on the shooter. I refuse to put his name here.

61 comments:

Liberalmann said...

To suggest we have to arm ourselves to prevent such a tragedy, and have guns in our schools to protect our children is beyond stupid. It's time we say screw off NRA and pass meaningful gun control legislation.

dmarks said...

It is unfortunate that there are certain people (cough, see above comment) who gleefully, perhaps even with a smile, actually look forward to such events and seize on them, in order to back a policy that is fascistic, unconstitutional, and aside from that, bad counter-productive public policy.

I suggest anyone reading the above comment, and might be concerned that others like him seek to callously use this as an opportunity go crush our basic rights, go to the nearest gun show and purchase effective firearms. And learn how to use them.

(Damn you Liberlmann. Have you no shame? To both use this incident so callously, and to seek to eliminate a basic human right)

Ducky's here said...

This is not the time, but I feel I should mention it, but if the principal or any of those teachers or staff had concealed weapons, they may have stopped that monster from doing any harm to all those innocent children and adults.

---------
Yeah, and if the kindergartners were strapped and Connecticut had a stand your ground law it would never have happened. First thing on your Christian mind, more guns.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

We live in a violent gun crazed militaristic culture that is morphing into barbarity. But we need more guns.

Save the prayers, Leticia. God isn't going to come down and stuff the kid's wounds with candy. Everyone involved is going to be scarred forever and all you and the always entertaining dmarks can suggest is more guns.

Pathetic gun loons.

Shaw Kenawe said...

Next, we'll be arming toddlers at day care centers.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Instead of controlling the sale of murderous weapons that massacre babies, the folks here suggest we arm more babies.

Lunatic is not a sufficient term to describe that sort of thinking.

Anonymous said...

What a tragedy.

Though this is a time for moarning and unfied prayer I do hope that this puts some soul-searching into a better way to deal with such events and the laws around guns.

No matter what you say, the system is obviously broken and needs fixing.

If you have to have guns, then why military-style weapons. if you have strong laws in one state of city and weak ones in others, then why not one national standard.

What i do not like, or perhaps symptomatic of the wrong attitude is that at such an event, rather than simply raising the obvious problems that exist, just adding to the problem by wishing to arm teachers - well it only can make things worse. That will lead to the eventual teacher "going postal....", let along not dealing with the issue but increasing it.

Whatever the solution, something requjires to be fixed.

dmarks, if your going to criticize liberalmann for going for the gun, then do not be the hypocrit and have a go at Leticia for starting it with her short-sighted-reactionary give the teacher guns comment.

Damien Charles

ps, do not forget, those countries that have strict gun laws have negligable gun-violence and no increase in other forms of violence. Facts are facts, your country remains what it is, a violent nation.

DC

Teresa said...

Well we reap what we sew. More evidence of a Godless society. God and morality is very important, more than ever. Our nation needs to return to God, God loving policies.

My heart aches for the families of the victims. My thoughts and prayers go out to that Connecticut community.

Does anyone know whether this shooting took place in a gun free, or a gun control zone?

Guns save. Psychos kill. If guns had been used in self-defense most it is likely that less lives would have been lost.

Ducky's here said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Liberalmann said...

Teresa, ah...duh...kindergartens are always gun free zones. But really, does it really have to come down to this?

Teresa said...

Liberalmann,

I was referring to the area or the city. Are there gun laws in that city or county?

"But really, does it really have to come down to this?"

Huh? What are you talking about? Guns? Pro-guns - Pro-2nd Amendment? Or gun laws?

The guy was mentally unstable. There is no need to blame guns, unenforced gun laws or lax gun laws. He would have gotten his mother's gun or another gun and used it no matter how many laws were in place. Criminals don't follow laws. Gun laws only limit people who follow the law and make it harder for the people who follow the laws to defend themselves.

Leticia said...

Lib, I strongly disagree. If the front office had noticed him and they were armed, they could have shot him, just like that security guard at that Christian facility, he killed the assailant before he murdered one person.

dmarks, Amen!! I couldn't agree more with you.

Ducky, my prayers and my God are bigger than you or any person on this planet, and let me tell you one thing, those precious children are in His hands now and so, I hope are the adults. That man chose to murder, and I refuse to give into ignorant people like you and lib who want all of us unarmed and unprotected. He would have done it no matter what.

Israel arms their teachers and look at the statistics. Look at Switzerland every home has a gun, and crime is low.

If you were a thief or murderer intending to rob or kill someone, and were scoping homes. Which home would you hit, a home where you knew that the owners had firearms or a home that had no protection at all and would be an easy target? Ponder on that and chew on it for a moment.

Shaw, like you and your fellow liberals, you go ahead and remain unarmed, but as for those of us who choose to arm ourselves have a better chance of protection ourselves and our loved ones. I liked the fact that our kindergarten center here in my town had an armed officer on the premises at all times in the office.

DC, your petty insults are not going to wash with me. I know for fact if there had been people in that school with concealed weapons or signs stating that there were teachers and staff that were armed, I sincerely doubt that SOB wouldn't have chosen to enter that school at all.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw, GA– responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of “Wild West” showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Teresa, my friend, absolutely correct.

Magpie said...

“Israel arms their teachers and look at the statistics. Look at Switzerland every home has a gun, and crime is low.”

That is a lie.

Israel has strict gun regulations. Assault rifles are banned in Israel except in special areas. Further… in order to own a pistol, you have to have been either a captain in the army or a former lieutenant colonel or equivalent rank in other security organizations.

Switzerland does not have standing army, they have a militia – that is why so many people have guns. You may not carry one publically without a permit however and certain types of guns are banned. Automatic weapons are banned (as they are in Australia where we have not had a mass shooting in 16 years). There are numerous other controls as well governing sales and dispersal of ammo.

Both countries thus screen potential gun owners.

In other words, you cannot be a bloody lunatic and own weapons of suburban mass destruction with no controls as is the case in America.
That is the problem.

Fabian the Rocket Scientist said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Liberalmann said...

To suggest the front office should have been armed is ludicrous. More guns is not the answer. This is not the wild west. Fewer guns are, so this type of mentally unbalanced person can't get his hands on them. There is no reason for his mother to have owned an assault rifle in the first place. There is no reason for anyone to own one. I am not for banning all guns. I own a shotgun and a .22 myself from my long since gone hunting days. But it's time to ban assault weaponry including mag clips. And stop being stupid about it.

Fabian the Rocket Scientist said...

Leticia said...
Lib, I strongly disagree.
And Leticia, I strongly agree with you.
People like Liberal Mann, Shaw, and Ducky are predictable
I agree, but there's no doubt in my mind that the Left will try to blame the Republicans the gun and bible totters, but that is like blaming the fork for obesity, or cars for drunk drivers. The problem must be attacked at its roots how about todays entertainment like the violent videos, or the music industry, like the words in their anti white, anti police, songs! Also these Parents who rather party then take care and teach their own kids.We all must speak out, and try to educate those who are oblivious to things that cause these things. We must speak out in our churches, synagogues and mosques must speak out and educate the unwed mothers, the midnight basketball players, and stop these gangs that have shooting wars in the playgrounds, etc.
In this case, I think the shooting may turn out to be a case of a sick young man´s rage against his own mother. A mother who should have known better than to have all these guns in the house without even having heme locked up. Why would a women who has a son with mental illness have Two pistols,and a 223-caliber rifle in her home in the first place? If it was for protection, isn't one pistol enough?

Jarhead said...

Hey Libnut, stop this politicizing nonsense! You're spreading that crap with your progressive philosophy and it’s getting me and others nauseous. Everything you write is so full of hate that it’s sickening.. So typical of the Left.
Face it stupid, anyone that shoots a room full of innocent little children is sick or crazy misguided evil people. In this case this guy who killed all these children yesterday was definitely crazy, he was not practicing any religion, he was not of any political party, he was acting out delusional crazy thoughts in his head. Unfortunately he had guns, or his Mothers guns with which he could act out those thoughts. We can not get rid of all crazy people or be sure there will not be any more crazy people can prevent them from getting guns? I don’t think that we can. Sick people and thugs, crooks etc will manage to get guns if they want to. Most of all crimes committed with guns are done with illegal guns, that are easily obtained if they want them. Violent criminals will find a way to get them if they want them. Acquiring guns legally in most states is not as easy as some may think. It’s the illegal guns that are used mostly in murder cases.
In this case the lunatic had all this planned in advance. He bought the armor suit and the Black clothes he was wearing, he knew that is Mother would be home that morning and killed her in her own home, then went to the school and did his dirty work. Everything was planned in advance.

Anonymous said...

The solution is never simple and it takes both logic, stragety and courage to fix it.

I have no problem with a society that has guns and as some have commented above, countries like Switzerland have a majority with a rifle or handgun in each home. However, people have to understand the difference between Switzerland and America.

For a start there is one national standard, regulation and fire-arm code. America has 50-plus because districts and cities often alter the rules to suite them.

If America had a unified code, standard, things would be very, very different and many of these massacres and incidents would not have occured.

Equally so, Switerland does not allow military style automatic weapons in the hands of anyone civilian unless they are reservists and they are under constant scrutiny.

It is your laws and your mentality that frankly is the problem. Have the right to weapons but make them standard and national.

Easy answers also never work. Though I still highlight that countries like Australia and even next to me in both Spain and Morocco - yes Morocco - have do not have incidents even remotely like what happens.

That a nutcase will find a weapon anyhow or use a knife anyhow is also not an excuse. The quanititive damage is less but the fact that they can do such destructive damage is often the incentive - psychologists have pointed that out for years.

Again, this is a unique problem to the United States and it has to do with history, social attitude but it is also perpetuated by business and interest groups. The lobby power of the NRA, manufacturers along with nationalists citing the boogey-man only makes debate and repairing the obviously broken system all the more harder.

What America needs is the NRA to demand a national control and standards, automatic fire-arms to be banned and increased punishment and police to ensure public safety. Just remember a pole by Fox noted that the main reason people support the Ammendment is not versus crime, but because the Right is there.

Damien Charles

Ducky's here said...

@Leticia -- Look at Switzerland every home has a gun, and crime is low.
----
Highest murder rate in Europe.

Anonymous said...

Hey Schmucky or Ducky or whatever.
In Switzerland, they have virtually no gun crime.
And Switzerland has a mandatory gun position law. They have a military issued rifle in every house, third lowest homicide rate in Europe. So that should tell you something about gun laws.

Jarhead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jarhead said...

As if it wasn’t predictable, the disgusting idiotic lefties are once again crawling out from under the rocks to politicize the Newtown, Conn., tragedy. The Liberal/Democratic/Progressive blogs are blaming the NRA and the Republicans. What a shock! Those people are freakin morons! This was a major nut case with a gun, no one could have prevented this from happening. But go try to convince those psychos.. it's like talking to a dead cow.

viburnum said...

The problem isn't gun control, nor is it deficiencies in mental health care, though we should return to taking those capable of such acts off the streets. The problem is that we've raised two generations imbued with the knowledge that life is disposable at a whim.

Those were not the only children's lives snuffed out yesterday. They have several thousand others for company, and if you can't connect the dots between them you're not thinking very hard.

Anonymous said...

Viburnum,

I think even that position is to narrow. It is a combination of all the factors and thus is a very difficult issue to fix.

Yes the mentality of recent generations (there was no such frequency in the past) obviously is a large factor.

Having said that so is gun-control and mental health.

I was watching a psychologist specializing on criminality on CNN and he pointed out that less than a fifth of those registered as having or currently under court-ordered controls are "off-the-radar" and thus if they go to certain parts of the country and walk away with weapons.

Gun-control, though, is an important and necessary step. Not to bannish guns, as there are eight and a half million of them, but simply to get a singular national control on ownership with what fire-arms should no longer be available, the correct form of checks and regular management.

Also, hard effort on what is the level of correct ownership and how to ensure that it is accessible. As I mentioned above, and also voiced by a number of experts, yes the availability is a factor (as apposed to they will do it anyway) as it results not in an anti-deterent, but creates an object for those intent to focus on (I will go in a blaze of glory and take as many as possible with me) instead of perhaps a singular killing (such as a murder-suicide) or just driving at 150mph/plus until a hit a tree/house/bridge, etc.

This is not political though certain groups want to make it that way. The Far-Left are forcing a knee-jerk reaction that does not look at the issue holistically. Industry and certain elements on the Right use nationalism and "our fundamental right" as an excuse and dare even say "the system is good as it is".

The fact is both are wrong but the system itself is obviously wrong and needs to be fixed and fixed now.

The issue needs to be debated, debated in full AND out of respect of these victims. Time to act!

Damien Charles

Liberalmann said...

Jughead, you're really just itching to make this political. So much so you rant and rave like a friggin' lunatic about how you can't wait for liberals to blame the GOP. You accuse me of being hateful with my posts here (which is bullshit) yet you spew nothing but hate yourself in the same post.You really just don't get it do you? I sure hope you're not armed.

Liberalmann said...

Five Lies The Gun Lobby Tells You



MYTH #1: More guns don’t lead to more murders. A survey by researchers at the Harvard University School of Public Health found strong statistical support for the idea that, even if you control for poverty levels, more people die from gun homicides in areas with higher rates of gun ownership. And despite what gun advocates say, countries like Israel and Switzerland don’t disprove the point.

MYTH #2: The Second Amendment prohibits strict gun control. While the Supreme Court ruled in D.C. v. Heller that bans on handgun ownership were unconstitutional, the ruling gives the state and federal governments a great deal of latitude to regulate that gun ownership as they choose. As the U.S. Second Court of Appeals put it in a recent ruling upholding a New York regulation, “The state’s ability to regulate firearms and, for that matter, conduct, is qualitatively different in public than in the home. Heller reinforces this view. In striking D.C.’s handgun ban, the Court stressed that banning usable handguns in the home is a ‘policy choice[]‘ that is ‘off the table,’ but that a variety of other regulatory options remain available, including categorical bans on firearm possession in certain public locations.”

MYTH #3: State-level gun controls haven’t worked. Scholars Richard Florida and Charlotta Mellander recently studied state-to-state variation in gun homicide levels. They found that “[f]irearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation.” This is backed up by research on local gun control efforts and cross-border gun violence.

MYTH #4: We only need better enforcement of the laws we have, not new laws. In fact, Congress has passed several laws that cripple the ability for current gun regulations to be enforced the way that they’re supposed to. According to researchers at the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, a series of federal laws referred to as the Tiahrt amendments “limit public access to crime gun trace data, prohibit the use of gun trace data in hearings, pertaining to licensure of gun dealers and litigation against gun dealers, and restrict ATF’s authority to require gun dealers to conduct a physical inventory of their firearms.” Other federal laws “limited the ATF compliance inspections” and grant “broad protections from lawsuits against firearm manufacturers and retail sellers.”

MYTH #5: Sensible gun regulation is prohibitively unpopular. Not necessarily. As the New Republic’s Amy Sullivan reported after the series of mass shootings this summer, a majority of Americans would prefer both to enforce existing law more strictly and pass new regulations on guns when given the option to choose both rather than either/or. Specific gun regulations are also often more popular than the abstract idea.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-address-issue-gun-control-through-introduction-legislation-congress/2tgcXzQC

christian soldier said...

I knew that the FIRST thing that would be touted is GUN CONTROL___
Interesting that the 'must carry' states have the fewest violent crime--
as to the shootings-we have lost out moral compass--
RE: Post below
giving our F-16 s to the followers of the religion of peace is to be expected from this communist- marxist regime--remember- Hitler used muslims as his prototype SS--

Anonymous said...

christian soldier

the problem with comments like that is since it cannot be backed up with facts, it is simply worth the putting in the trash.

For a start if we talk about "gun control" and tight regulations we have less violence and violent crime. A few small examples in towns only reflects the willingness of a town to be secure and it has nothing to do with the country as a whole. In the end, as countless people from both sides of the political divide have said, less guns equates to less violent deaths (note deaths not crime).

I think it is time that schoolyard trash talk re "communist-marxist regimes", we all know and yes even you know that is is not even remotely the case and people should simply grow-up.

As for hitler using Muslims as a "prototype SS", we also know that is cr*p and we also know that you cannot provide any evidence to back up that far-fetched dream of yours as well. Please provide a quote from some serious academic or journalistic archive..... yeah sure...

Damien Charles

Shaw Kenawe said...

“Although Switzerland had the lowest crime rate [in Europe] in 1988, today’s crime rate is to a large extent aligning itself with the percentages in the rest of Europe,” said a statement by the cross-cantonal police body.

“The myth that Switzerland is the safest country in the world, or at least Europe, is over. Forget it,” added the criminologist in charge of the report, Martin Killias.

Jersey McJones said...

This particular post has turned into an argument about gun control, and that's all fine. Look at it this way - Thank God this psycho didn't get his hands on more dangerous weapons. We might be talking about even more dead children had he that "right."

This was a loony living in a house with a loony who had a bunch of guns... an no one knew of this?

Stupid.

JMJ

Jarhead said...

Liberalmann said...

Jughead, you're really just itching to make this political. So much so you rant and rave like a friggin' lunatic about how you can't wait for liberals to blame the GOP. You accuse me of being hateful with my posts here (which is bullshit) yet you spew nothing but hate yourself in the same post.You really just don't get it do you? I sure hope you're not armed.

No Libschmuck, I DO get it, and what I get is that it's freaken PC Liberal imbecile like you who dictate your socialistic bullshit to others.

It's radical progressives like you who follow the rest of the ignorant PC crowd……i can’t believe that this is AMERICA any more.…..the Liberal Professors in the college's have spent alot of time to get their students to this point. And I'm truly ashamed for these people. but when they lose their freedoms and rights and when they do wake up it’ll be to late for everyone……

The whole bunch of you lemmings are clueless morons who shouldn’t be allowed to vote for anything, anytime, anywhere, because all you freaks want are hand-outs. You people forgot what it is to be an American. You begrudge people who have worked hard and earned what they have to keep it.. if people earned it, they should get to enjoy it. Not give it to the lazy bums who want to take it away from them.!

In America the President DOESN'T get to decide when people have enough money! At least NOT the America I knew.
There is a very good reason that the jackass is the symbol of YOUR party.

And by the way, did anyone see Hillary Clinton's (PIAPS) convenient fall and hit her pointy head?
And how much do you want to bet that that the "concussion" caused a bit of memory loss about Benghazi?

Jarhead said...

I'm hopping that Madam Hillary Clinton's head injury isn't that bad and that she will be able to finish out the Foot Ball season.
And by the way, to all who believe this BS story, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale

Liberalmann said...


Jughead, not much to say about your loony rants except you are a dumbshit goober parroting GOP/Fox talking points with a bumper sticker mentality.

Liberalmann said...


‎"One failed attempt at a shoe bomb[ing], and we all take off our shoes at the airport; 31 school shootings since Columbine, and no change in our regulation of guns" (John Oliver).

Jarhead said...

Hillary Clinton FAINTS
and suffers a bull-shit concussion just days after insisting she´s
not too old to run for
President in 2016 But we have seen her lies, scandal and cover-up for years and years and nobody gives a crap.. Shes a disgrace, a phoney unethical embarassment to our nation as is her boss Obammy and her lying husband Bill. I can't see how anyone can believe anything she says. She isn´t or wasn't in the hospital. Shes at home. So why don't they just ostpone the hearings for a week and MAKE her testify then instead of sending her subordinates there to LYE for her!

Z said...

Ducky's lied so badly it's worth commenting. I wasn't going to after reading the ugliness in so many of the comments.

Switzerland's not close to Europe's highest murder rate and has always been one of the least high ... the guns in Swiss homes are an excellent example of why it's not a high rate. If the rate's gone up, I'd like to see how much of it's caused by the foreigners so many of whom have ruined that very lovely country.
EVERYWHERE guns are legal and people know it, homicides are lowest. No matter HOW the facts differ with a person's ideology, the facts stay.

Jarhead...fascinating that Hillary's concussion will be keeping her from testifying. I enjoyed the joke of her arranging testifying 'after the hearings'...but now this is too much :-)

Leticia said...

Magpie, I know they don't have an army, but a standing military militia, good grief. But every male MUST take training, etc. And yes, the majority of the homes are gun owners! Sheesh!

Lib, that's your opinion, but if the front office had been properly trained and armed they would shot down that monster before he killed anyone. Most gun owners are trained and responsible with their firearms. And I support this 100%.

Fabian, thank you. A mother knows when her child needs help and she must have known something was off with her kid and I agree, she should have had just one weapon. No one will ever know what kind of relationship this man had with his mother to hate her so much and to slaughter all those innocent children. This investigation will continue to unfold.

Jarhead, exactly. The liberals can't seem to grasp that this psychotic man pre-meditated this and he was going to acquire the guns no matter what. Evil cannot be disarmed. But someone in the school who might of had a gun could have dropped him before he killed anyone.

Vib, right! But try convincing the Left. It just doesn't compute.

DC, see I disagree. I believe any person that has been properly trained, registered and licensed should have the weapon of their choice. Because an evil person is not going to follow those rules, they will have automatic weapons, they usually do. I am not saying we should turn into the Old West by no means, but civilians should have the right to own whatever gun they want.

Think in terms of your home and protecting your family. What kind of weapon would you choose that would protect your family? An automatic or semi-automatic or a revolver? I know which I would choose.

Ducky, check your facts again.

Carol, you made perfect sense, regardless of DC's comments.

Jersey, have you seen the pictures of the victims? There is a Facebook page now. And it will tear you to pieces. The gun control issue came up because, if the staff had guns he would have been shot down immediately.

This is just so tragic and most of us are still trying to process it.

Z, I know, how convenient for Hilary to just "faint." Yeah, I don't think so. Pathetic attempt. This post was very difficult for me to share, because I was literally crying my eyes out.

I cannot imagine what those families are going through. And I cry for them and the precious lives that were lost.

Anonymous said...

Leticia,

though I see your point I cannot agree at all. The type of weapon is very important. If there is a ban and no military-type weapons then there will be none. those that want it are already breaking the law, agencies will quickly identify them and thus they will be more and more off the street as time goes on.

Thus, no assault rifles will be available and thus the results of attacks will be less in numbers. In addition, it will give advantage to law officials to identifty abuse, track sales and persecute. A guy walking around or seen with an assault weapon (such as the Bush-Master M4) will be spotted.

Such a change in laws alters the results, it does not stop the madman from shooting but it stops the madman from gunning down "en masse" (on mass).

Also I disagree with the arming of teachers. Have a security guard or a single person designated and trained, yes, but not arm teachers. The problem with that is you will ultimately have the teacher who "goes postal" and kills.

It is a combination that will change things for the better, not single changes or kneejerk reactions. Get rid of military-type weapons, a single nation-wide registration and checking system, well placed rules about security at vulnerable places and more influence to gun-clubs to create a well organised environment (which is the real success in places like Switzerland).

Damien Charles

Anonymous said...

Z, and others regarding Switzerland.

I support the type of rules, standards and laws in Switerland for any country that allows guns.

Having said that, it is not why murders are so low. That figures does not equate to the number of weapons, it equates to the training, standards, punishment and respect for both guns and life in that country.

Also, equating having guns equals less murders fails because it is the training and standards.

Swiss nationals that have guns are all ex-military having done their national service. They thus look after, respect, protect and constantly train with the weapons (or they are taken away from them).

As a former police officer said last night on CNN, if every American who had guns treated them like a police office HAS TO, and if he/she was tested and scrutinized like very polcie office HAS TO, there would be no such level of gun violence in the country.

In one way, guns in Switzerland is the same as how that police officer described it.

That is a big difference.

When, and I repeat when, America comes to its senses and starts putting regulations, the bulk will understand and appreciate it. The problem will always come down to those that love to say "over my dead body will you take my guns", that is going to be very interesting to say the least.

Damien Charles

Ducky's here said...


Switzerland's not close to Europe's highest murder rate and has always been one of the least high ... the guns in Swiss homes are an excellent example of why it's not a high rate.

-----
he rate has come down since the Swiss banned ownership of ammunition.

Pitch till you win, z.

Lone Ranger said...

This most certainly IS the time, since liberals never let a good crisis go to waste. They must be thanking their lucky stars (since they don't believe in God) that this happened just after Obama was elected and before the Supreme Court rules on the right to carry a weapon.

The fact is that the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

These shootings always take place in no-gun zones. And they always end the moment the shooter is confronted by someone with a gun.

But liberals never let facts stand in the way of squelching our constitutional freedoms.

All you have to do is look at cities with repressive gun laws. It will take Chicago only a few weekends to match or exceed the death toll at that elementary school.

You can't fight evil with policies born in evil. The NRA was formed by union officers to fight the gun laws passed by democrats who did not want blacks and white Republicans to be able to defend themselves against raids by the KKK -- the armed wing of the democrat party.

Something that went largely unreported is that a man stabbed 22 elementary school children on Friday in China. Does China ban knives? Of course not. Even one of the most repressive societies in the world recognizes the stupidity of that.

Liberalmann said...

Leticia said: "The liberals can't seem to grasp that this psychotic man pre-meditated this and he was going to acquire the guns no matter what."

That's utter bullshit and you know it, if assault weapons are banned, if mag clips are banned, if handguns have to be licensed or if handgus have smart triggers....you're putting a lot of steps between the guns and the potential shooter.

Teresa said...

Oh my... Liberalmann is under the impression that criminals follow laws. Dude, they're criminals, and they will find a way to obtain guns and kill no matter what law is instituted. Gun laws will only (or primarily) affect law-abiding citizens. If government officials or the military can have assault rifles why can't the ordinary citizenry, especially since the 2nd Amendment is to help prevent the citizenry from being subjugated by a tyrannical government? That would put citizens at a major disadvantage if there ever came a time when our government was like that under the control of King George III in Britain.

Teresa said...

correction = assault weapons instead of assault rifles

Z said...

Charles, that is exactly right. Every Swiss who's been in the military (and they all do) brings his gun home...forever. And the ammo. They are highly trained.
The rate is low there and has ALWAYS BEEN LOW.

Ducky...stop lying; you're making me giggle with your insistence...on the other hand, I could use a laugh :-)

wedeonn

Z said...

by the way, assault weapons have been banned since 1986

Teresa said...

Z,

All assault weapons? If all assault weapons have been banned since 1986 why are certain guns being called "assault weapons"? More misinformation from the Left? To scare the public? To get there anti-gun agenda passed?

Liberalmann said...

Teresa said..."Oh my... Liberalmann is under the impression that criminals follow laws. Dude, they're criminals, and they will find a way to obtain guns and kill no matter what law is instituted"

That's bullshit and you know it. If this kid had not had access to these weapons in his own home this would have not happened.

I am not calling to abolish all guns. I own a few hunting rifles myself. But it's time to ban assault weapons, mega clips, get rid of gun shows, license all handgun owners and put smart triggers on handguns.

We can now carry concealed weapons in National Parks, and in some state recently allowed carrying in bars and churches. Lets get smart about this.


In 2011, NRA Shot Down CT Law To Limit 30-Shot Magazines;
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/2011-nra-shot-down-ct-law-limit-30-sh

Six Extreme Policies That Prove The NRA Is Out Of Step With America
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/17/1345641/nra-gun-laws/

Fox News Employees Told Not To Talk Of Gun Control After Newtown Massacre: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/fox-news-gun-control-sandy-hook-newtown_n_2318431.html

Teresa said...
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Leticia said...

Sorry all, I promise to comment and answer everyone tomorrow. I had a busy and tiring day! Whew!

Magpie said...

“See you think banning stuff -guns,ammo - is the answer.”

It is an answer.

We did it after a mass shooting 16 years ago.

There has not been a mass shooting since.

Not even one.

Zero.

Anywhere in my country. With no corresponding increase in violent death or other crime by other means.

Imagine all the people who would be alive today if that was true for America.

America deserves to be able to say the same.

Instead of the equivalent of three 9/11s that you slay with guns EVERY YEAR.

You talk about freedom but you have no idea what it is. None at all. You think you do. But you don’t.

Freedom is just a posture to the Right. A word. Being louder than anyone else. The delusion of being all self-reliant when truth is you couldn’t live a month without a supermarket.

What about the freedom to simply live without fear, and without the fetishes of gun-caressing lunatics being taken more seriously than the lives of children?

You make a choice. The lives of children – other people’s children - or the ‘freedom’ of mental incompetents to have weapons that can kill dozens in less than a minute.

And you choose the latter. Shame on you.

Because your delusions are more important to you than the real lives of anyone else.

You are stupid and selfish.

You embrace explanations for things that belong in the dark ages.

People like you believe in “the end times” so you don’t even think the children had a future anyway.

And people like you are the reason those kids are dead.

You have no idea what it is to lose a child.

I do.

But at least he wasn’t taken from me days from Christmas by an emotional incompetent schooled in how to shoot guns by the mother he killed.

By someone who didn’t know how to be a whole person, because for him “being a man” was equalised by those around him to nothing more than being able to shoot.

Anonymous said...

Bravo to Magpie - said with more eloquence and restraint than I would have used here.

I'd add that in the years *before* the law change that Magpie refers to we had something like 13 mass murders, including the Port Arthur attack that instigated the reform - and as the feathered one noted - we've had none since. Zip, nada, zilch.

Gun related suicides have also dropped markedly, without a mirroring rise in other methods.

(And I should know, to my regret - I lost my brother to gun related suicide just as the reforms were coming in. Perhaps you god fearing, gun wielding nutbars should spend an afternoon washing blood, bone fragments and brain matter out of the carpet in your bedroom and see how you feel about your guns).

It does work. At least it does in countries where the majority of people and politicians are sane.

Oh - and the politician that did it all? One of the most right wing conservative politicians we've ever had.

He argued his case against his own constituents - once infamously while wearing a bullet proof jacket.

Unlike your lot, he at least knew that something needed to change and made it happen.

Unlike you lot, we *wanted* to change (you'd really prefer to live in a world where teachers have guns in classrooms with children rather than just give up your precious... 'toys')?

Has it occured to you that your country is standing at the edge of a precipice - and it's your fault?

No, of course it hasn't. Silly me.

This is really your last chance to turn things around. If you don't change now, you're going to end up sliding into the hell you all fear so much.

You're pretty much there already.

~Sigil

Teresa said...

"You make a choice. The lives of children – other people’s children - or the ‘freedom’ of mental incompetents to have weapons that can kill dozens in less than a minute.

And you choose the latter. Shame on you.

Because your delusions are more important to you than the real lives of anyone else.

You are stupid and selfish."

Actually since you don't believe in liberty YOU have made that choice, that it has to be either this or that, either guns or no guns instead of fixing the state of a person's mental health. You are the one who thinks the mental health field doesn't or can't be reformed and refuses to allow people who believe differently that you to keep their guns, to allow responsible sane gun owners the right to bear arms while fixing a societal problem. You are a narrow-minded, intolerant coward who believes in tyranny of the people rather that freedom.

Shame on you! You would rather have the people have no means to fight back against a government (if need be in the future) which may have a long train of usurpations and abuses against the people. That's makes you the queen of dumb.

You and the likes of you are jacktards for thinking that way.

You think I wanted this gunman to shoot those people? You are Godless scum and you are the type of person who is detrimental to the peoples' health, especially the young. We have to look at the signs (if any) that could have been seen which could have avoided this tragedy. If there weren't any then we chalk it up to evil. A person choosing to do evil. A person who chose to do harm to others. You assume that everyone who owns guns is like the shooter. That means that you see the worst in people, not the good. That makes you a grumpy, negative,ideologically-biased, untruthful, judgmental, egominiacal sow of a$$hattery.

You are the one who chooses fantasy land over reality. You are clueless because you don't live in America.

Which country do you live in?

Liberalmann said...

Teresa Said:"See you think banning stuff -guns,ammo - is the answer. You believe in limiting our freedom, Lib. The kind that is our constitutional right to defend ourselves but yet you would defend the right to abortion to the hilt and that kills innocents purposefully. Our guns used by responsible gun owners would be used to save innocents. Moral a$$backery by the Libmann here. You are treating massacres by nut jobs as the norm, not the exception. That takes some real quackery to do that."

....

Wow! Look at you insulting everyone who disagrees with you and you don't even have the intellect to back it up except with the usual catch phrases and talking points. Yeah, dummy...limit the ability to get a hold of such weaponry and you'll greatly reduce this problem without limiting your precious constitutional rights.

And where to do you off making assumptions about my views on abortion? Leticia is naive but I think she's sweet. But you are a sanctimonious asswipe.



Teresa said...
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Teresa said...

LMAO Liberalmann. You reek of meadow muffins. I think you are smelling and recognizing your own droppings from afar.

Liberalmann said..."That's utter bullshit and you know it, if assault weapons are banned, if mag clips are banned, if handguns have to be licensed or if handgus have smart triggers....you're putting a lot of steps between the guns and the potential shooter."

See you think banning stuff -guns,ammo - is the answer. You believe in limiting our freedom, Lib. The kind that is our constitutional right to defend ourselves. Our guns used by responsible gun owners would be used to save innocents. You are treating massacres by nut jobs as the norm, not the exception. That takes some real quackery to do that.

Teresa said...

Liberalmann,

There is a 14 day waiting period in Connecticut. They do background checks. Although, I think the background checks should be expanded in some capacity.

You have only backed up your points with opinions, and opinion based articles. You treat me like crap and that's okay but when I dish it out to you, you can't handle it.

Its too bad you can't see me for who I really am. When people treat me right I treat them the same way. When people insult me and treat me like crap like you and Magpie have do you really think I am going to be nice to you and let your falsehoods slide?

Teresa said...

But Liberalmann since you complained about my mentioning abortion and presuming that you are pro-abortion I am going to ask a question: Are you pro-abortion (pro-choice)?

Since it isn't relevant to the discussion at hand I deleted that comment.

Leticia said...

DC, the government, Obama, wants to take away these type of assault rifles, but if you recall the Fast and Furious, he is still supplying Mexico with them. Sorry, this man wants to disarm American citizens. I believe he wants to dictate everything that we do, and buy. If I choose to purchase an assault rifle, which, I would LOVE to own, I should have that opportunity to do so, without government interference.

Most Americans, respect gun laws, that's the simple truth. I live in the south and every person I know owns a firearm of some type or form and are VERY responsible.

Those that don't follow the same rules, will buy what they want, when they want and use them how they want. Rules mean diddly-squat when it comes to following the law.

Ducky, empty words are all you are spewing. Do you realize that the Chicago and Washington have the highest rates in crime, and were you aware about their ban on guns? Think about that.

Jarhead, it's almost impossible to help them see logic. When they are illogical.

Lone Ranger, YES! Exactly my point. Well-said.

Lib, you just don't get it no matter how many times we try and give an example. Criminals DO NOT follow the laws, no, they break them.

Leticia said...

Get back to everyone else, I have a play to watch my little guy play, Santa. :)

Liberalmann said...

Leticia said: 'Criminals DO NOT follow the laws, no, they break them."

.....

Aw! See what I mean about her being naive? Lol!


-----

Teresa said: "See you think banning stuff -guns,ammo - is the answer. You believe in limiting our freedom, Lib'.

......

I love it when wingnuts like you pre-suppose what you're told to of those who disagree with you. Then you have to call names. You are a sanctimonious turd. I'm not about limiting 'freedoms,' but it's time we wake up.

In this case, if this kid had no access to his looney survivalist mother's weaponry-if they we're banned-THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED!

Switzerland requires gun ownership because they have no Army. They are #4 in the world in gun related murders. And they are by far-the smallest country. Ding dong!



Teresa said...

Liberalmann,

If you think that I'm sanctimonious that means I must be doing a heck of a lot right :)

I took you at your words Liberlmann. Its pretty sad when you are unable to recognize what you said and there implications. So you don't think banning ammo and certain guns (or all guns) would be limiting ones freedom?

Have you heard of the black market? Even if the guns were banned he could find them on the streets or use knives, box cutters, and a lot of other objects to kill or maim others.

If someone is intent on doing evil the person will do evil.

Leticia said...

Lib, I think you are the one that is naive. I suppose you also believe that guns just "go off" right? LOL!! Get real. Criminals will go to any means to get the weapons they desire, period.

Come live in my neighborhood for a week and let then let me know if you wouldn't want to own a firearm.

Those that own guns, own for protection and those that hunt.