All eminently reasonable concerns. Meanwhile, the standard response from "moderates" would be to insist these issues have nothing to do with Islam, but are in fact "cultural," despite the fact that, oddly enough, these same "cultural" issues and interest in waging jihad are found in locales far removed from one another.
So, the "radical imams" couldn't possibly be observing the commands and actions of Muhammad, or the teachings of the Qur'an.
Polygamy? Well, it doesn't really happen, except when it does. And the women? They love it, honest!
Failure to uphold women's rights? Why, Islam elevates women! Just try to overlook things like wife-beating (Qur'an 4:34: yes, it really says to beat them), a woman's testimony being equal to half that of a man (Qur'an 2:282), and child marriage after the example of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, just to name a few.
But, the cleric interviewed below insists this is unfair. After all, look at all of the Islamic states affording the same recognition (as equals, not as dhimmis) and access to resources to Jews, Christians, Hindus... Oh, wait... "Italy: Islam denied income tax revenue," from AdnKronos International, August 27:
Rome, 27 August (AKI) - Mosques in Italy will not receive a share of income tax revenue the Italian government allocates to religious faiths each year. Hindu and Buddhist temples, Greek Orthodox churches and Jehovah's Witnesses will be eligible for the funds, according to a bill approved by the Italian cabinet in May and still must be approved by parliament.
Until now, the government had earmarked 8 percent of income tax revenue for Italy's established churches. The great majority of these funds go to the Catholic Church, although if they wish, individual tax payers may elect to give the money to charities and cultural projects instead.
The head of COREIS, one of Italy's largest Muslim groups, Yahya Pallavicini, said he was bitter that Islam had been denied the revenue from Italian income tax.
"Work should be begun on legally recognising those moderate Muslims who have for years shown themselves to be reliable interlocutors who are free of and [sic] fundamentalist ideology," he said.
Islam is not an established religion in Italy and there is only one official mosque in the country, Rome's Grand Mosque. Politicians from the ruling coalition cite radical imams, polygamy and failure to uphold women's rights by Muslims immigrants as obstacles to recognising Islam as an official religion in Italy.
Until now, only the Catholic Church, Judaism and other established churches including Lutherans, Evangelists, Waldensians and 7th-day Adventists have received the income tax revenue from the Itallain government.
There are between one million and 1.5 million Muslims in Italy and 130 mosques linked the Muslim umbrella organisation UCOII across the country.
Italy gets it why not the rest of the world? Maybe they all could take a few lessons, the United States included.
19 comments:
"Mosques in Italy will not receive a share of income tax revenue the Italian government allocates to religious faiths each year."
Actually, no government should allocate any money to churches or mosques. Religion should be from the people, not the rulers.
I can agree to that. But I love the stand-point as to why the Italian government won't hand out funds to the mosque. I think it sends out a very clear message.
Actually, "failure to uphold women's rights", one of the main reasons listed, is a big problem for one of the Christian denominations receiving funds. A big one, in fact: the Catholics. The RCC's employment policy in this regard is very well known.
Mosques throughout the West have been importing Wahhabist imams for decades.
Now, of course. the West has "homegrown" Wahhabists.
Italy has taken a step in the right direction, IMO. I guess that enough Italians got fed up with all the sons of Allah urinating in the cathedrals, on un-Islamic works of art, etc. Oriana Fallaci wrote about such nasty goings on.
AOW said: "Mosques throughout the West have been importing Wahhabist imams for decades."
Rather than close mosques, we should just deport the ones with terrorist links like this.
AOW, they really have. And I am sure they are going to receive a lot of flak for their stance, but I support them in it.
dmarks, yikes!
Leticia,
I agree that funding and recognition should be witheld in Spain and it is a good method to enforce changes in the community's behaviour and allegences.
Having said that, the rest of what you put if frankly beneath you. Time and time again you fall for the context-abused judgemental criticism of scriptures of another faith and basing only puritanical interpretations - that simply does not work and in the end you are in fact supporting radical or ultra-conservative Muslims as being the only real ones when they are most certainly not.
If we followed the line from those disgustng and very questionable hate-sites that you have done, then all 56 Muslim countries would be Sharia - less than half are and again less then half ot them are only family courts subject to secular appeals - beating wives would be legal, the age of marriage would be around 9 and so on. Beating wives is a crime in most Muslim countries except for Somalia (even Saudi changed the laws). Marriage in Muslim countries is around 16 or 18 like in most countries, Peru has it at 14 - not many Muslims there. Of course the following of rules and ultra-puritinical is another matter, we cannot deny that - but then orthodox Jewish girls get basically "raped" as do Hindu girls in India - remember context!
I have no issue condemning those things are that obvious, which always comes down to the actions of man and often in the name of faith - never the opposite - actions of faiths in the name of man!
Back to Italy - no funding for Mosques until Muslims in Italy unite themselves and build a charter denouncing foreign cultures, allegiences and practices that are in direct odds to the hard-earned rights that we gained over here.
Italy is a weird place. We Americans are very leery of the sort of church-state entanglements Italy has long built into it's culture. We may think of New York or Washington as sort of a new Rome, but really Rome is a very different place. We don't lavish taxpayer money directly on religious institutions.
JMJ
Charles, I don't get my information from hate sites, and believe it or not some of my research comes from Politico, The Blaze, The Huffington post, and others. I am not as close-minded as you may think I am.
However, I will never change my opinion of the brutality of Islam. Regardless if you believe it is "beneath me."
Jersey, we are in agreement.
Good for Italy! Giving money to a mosque is like giving money to an Aztec temple that may or may not practice human sacrifice. What goes on inside the building is irrelevant. What the religion teaches is the point, and the teachings of Islam are just as bloody and barbarous as the teachings of the ancient Aztec religion.
As for religion being from the people, not the rulers, OUR government is of the people, by the people and for the people and the people who founded our country were Christians. I see no problem with our government funding church causes.
Lone said: "As for religion being from the people, not the rulers, OUR government is of the people, by the people and for the people and the people who founded our country were Christians. I see no problem with our government funding church causes."
None of this is really true at all.
The Founding Fathers recognized that the government is always "them", not "us". Sure, they put in ways to make the government less harmful, and more representative, but recognizing the nature of power they put in ways to limit the ruling elites.
By twisting the "government of the people" thing the way you are, you are doing what leftists do all the time. I've had so many arguments with progressives who claim that you don't need anything like a Bill of Rights to limit the power of a truly democratic government, because it is "of the people". You, Lone Ranger, are being exactly like this, and are ignoring the importance of individual rights.
What's to stop a government that funds official churches from having official healthcare (single payer), official media (funding MSNBC) and the rest?
I can't see how someone who wants the government to "fund official church causes" would have any problem at all with it funding NPR.
Look at the Bill of Rights. So many limitations on what the rulers can do to us.
This includes preventing the government from funding church causes. Regardless of the Founding Fathers being Christian or Deist or whatever, they specifically wanted the government to be neutral in regards to religion. That means freedom of religion, not state religion.
Also, regarding this: "What the religion teaches is the point, and the teachings of Islam are just as bloody and barbarous as the teachings of the ancient Aztec religion."
The Roman Catholic Church at this time was as bloody and barbarous as the Aztecs, and was a willing participant in the mass slaughter of Aztecs by Cortez and those who came after him. And the victims were much greater in number than the small number sacrificed by the Aztecs.
Are you willing to have the government choose this denomination as one of its special favored ones?
I never thought this was a problem. Why would mosques get tax money to begin with? dmarks got is right, no money to religious organizations. Italy has a big problem with the radical Muslims, it has been going on for a long time. About time they started doing something about it.
Debbie
Right Truth
http://www.righttruth.typepad.com
(Leticia: On another subject: Star Trek 2 (the second in the pre-quel series) begins production and is set for distribution in 2012. The villain? KHAN. Now you know no one can do KHAN like Rechardo Montlebahn (spelling?))
Debbie said: "dmarks got is right, no money to religious organizations."
Italy has a debt problem as well. This kind of austerity makes sense: Italy should cut off ALL such funding. The matters of Caesar and of God don't need to be intertwined like this.
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On the other subject, I've been following the rumors on the next Star Trek movie on "Blastr". The last I heard was that Khan was not in it at all.
Lone Ranger, the government would put restrictions on churches, as they now have now by threatening to revoke their non-profit status if they were to promote or speak about politics, homosexuality, etc. I wish we had the same kind of government our forefathers began.
Debbie, I am so excited to see the new movie but there is no way anyone can take the place of Ricardo Montalban. They shouldn't have done that. But I guess we will just have to see.
dmarks, the government is too restricting and if given the chance they will dictate what can or cannot be preached.
Leticia: Exactly. Just like when government controls the media.
dmarks, it's like that in France and Germany too...as a matter of fact, everyone's told that their churches are empty but they're not (believe me, I lived in both countries)...people deny membership because the taxes on church members are ridiculously high. But they do attend.
I think this is only right...the Mosques do not allow the Westerners in to hear their preaching and, until they do, who can trust that Imams aren't preaching what we know a large percentage are.
I"m so sorry anybody would accuse you of having got information from hate sites; Because we must be careful around some Muslims does not mean we must fear all Muslims, but the minute we rightfully condemn the Islamists, we're accused of all sorts of silly things. You don't deserve that, Leticia.
I believe it's up to Muslims to prove their benign motivations in Western societies; not us.
dmarks, absolutely.
Z, I didn't know that. I am actually surprised that churches have to bend the truth a little because of high fines, that's crazy.
You are correct about Mosques not allowing non-members. I have also heard that they tend to bribe new converts to join their mosques. One man even offered up his sister if this other man would become a Muslim. Disgusting!
It's okay, Z, I know the truth and if that's how some people feel, so be it.
Great news this, i'm glad the Italians get it. If the muslims don't like it, they can go to saudi arabia or some some other muslim country and help themselves.
It makes me sad that the rest of the west is so hostile to Christianity. We should be funding Christianity in our own countries, it's a real religion of peace and progress and encouraging westerners to become real Christians is by and large a really good thing for the west.
The west shoving Christianity aside seems to me like cutting one's nose off simply to spite our face.
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